› PLCGurus.NET Live & Interactive Forum › The Water Cooler › Programming machine hardware
- This topic has 10 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 6 months ago by Wayne Schaefer.
- September 25, 2018 at 11:19 pm #3350Sean TerrellModeratorKarma: 187Rank: Jedi
Just throwing this out there. Wondering how many of y’all program on a Mac? I do. Just interested to know how many others are.
I spent 8 months between last year and this year going between several machines. 2 were mine. The Macbook (well I bought it for the wife and totally stole it for like 3 months until I found a deal on mine), and my company provided machine. The Alienware and MSI pieces belong too coworkers that were very gracious to allow me to review them.
1) a company provided 14 in Dell… Mega standard “enterprise” piece. I sat next to people on planes constantly with the same one.
2) 17 inch alienware. Its a couple years older, but a beast, and had mega hardware specs terabyte storage with 2 onboard 500GB SSD’s
3) 15 or 16 inch MSI. almost brand new.
4) 17 inch Macbook Pro from get this 2009. Thats right 2009. 500 GB SSD 6 Gigs of ram, this was super top of the line in 09.
Here was the breakdown all of them were Windows 10, or Mac High Sierra native machines and All of them were running VMware 14 with the same virtual machine, or VMware Fusion 10. blah again.. same VM though
Dell 14 in Latitude: 1) Corporate Mike from Marketing who has 900 icons on his desktop likes this machine. 2) 12 plus hours of battery without breaking a sweat. 3) 12 plus hours of waiting for VMware to launch. 4) Try reading a cause and effect Spreadsheet or P&ID on the 13.5 in less than 4k screen.
Ailenware: 1) $3800 + multiple upgrades 2) Literally sounds like a jet engine taking off. I had people in the MCC ask when the water pump VFD’s were going to shut off… They already were.. Thats the laptop running. 3) provided an additional fitness aspect to carrying around the weight of a small child…everywhere. 4) Battery life is sub par considering it feels like you are lugging a marine deep cycle in your bag. 5) USB ports for everyone. and everything. I tried to run the thing out of USB ports and another one like magically appeared. “You get a USB, You get a USB” 6) Still waiting 12 hours for VMware to start up.
MSI: 1) Good battery. Needed the charger, at the end of the day but a solid 8 – 10 hours. 2) My god the keyboard backlighting is ridiculous. 3) Ran the VM best out of the 3 windows machines. 4) great looking screen. This was a nice machine and was nice to work on. Its a high end, well built laptop that is very capable. Thats all I can say. And if thats all I can say, I cannot justify the pricetag on it.
Macbook Pro 17 in from 2009 with the latest MacOS High Sierra, and VMware fusion 10.8 I think it was. 1) Heavier than the MSI, but aluminum unibody frame.. Yeah its actually metal. 2) sharpest screen out of all of them. 3) VMware fusion is fast, its easy to make changes too, it supports hyperthreading, 2 cores and 1/3rd of my Memory on a 60 Gig persistent VM, and Win 7 runs better on this old.. really old… dinosaur of a Mac that is running a newer Operating system. Tighter integration of system folders… and I had not one iota of an issue getting my 1) Hart USB Dongle to connect 2) usb to 232 9 pin to connect 3) USB to 485 to connect. not one problem. I literally fought with widows 10 and stupid prolific drivers trying to grab my Keyspan 19 HS for days to get it to work. Mac.. plug and play. Plus scrolling around on those P&ID’s was now suddenly literally a joy. Seriously, I was a touchpad HATER. I dont even carry my trusty old Logitech Mouse anymore.
Well… Thats my take folks… anyone else that wants to weigh in.. Im happy to use my Mac to type back a response
– ScooterSeptember 26, 2018 at 8:28 am #3354PLCGuruKeymaster
Yes, I’ve not hidden the fact that I’m not a Mac guy…I would say I’m almost anti-mac for some reason??? Probably because I’ve not spent the time (or money $$$) to use one. As you’re aware I did an article looking at some of the different laptops on the market right now, specifically for use in the rugged environments we like to put ourselves in (again not sure why…oh I know…because WE LOVE IT!). For those who haven’t checked out the article you can find it here: Best Laptops For PLC Programming.
Kudos to you for being an out-spoken Mac guy in a predominantly PC-based environment 😉 I assume that you’re running a Windows OS in your VM on the Macbook anyhow so when you peel away layers you’re still kinda sorta a Windows guy…but I’m thinking maybe only because you’re being forced to be one by the likes of the Rockwell’s and Siemen’s of the world!
Yes, for me bigger is better…I don’t know maybe it’s as the years peel off but looking at a 13.5 inch screen for an extended period of time for me would be exhausting. Give me the bohemiths I can strap to my back with the big chargers, additional battery packs always in reach hrrhrrhrr and I’m fit as a fiddle!
-FredSeptember 26, 2018 at 10:23 am #3358Jim ManleyModeratorKarma: 262Rank: Jedi
I’ve been a Mac guy from the beginning. My first computer was the unibody Fat Mac 512k. That bad boy ran off 3.5″ floppies (one for OS/Apps, one for data) until I connected up a whopping 40MB hard drive to it. I was livin’ it up then.
I didn’t start using a PC until I was forced to by my former employer and, even then, it took them several years to make that happen. At home I was strictly Mac based, going through several years of MacBooks, iMacs, etc.
I’m on a 2016 MacBook Pro (15″, 2.7GHz Intel Core i7, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD) now. I run VMWare to deal with Windows apps like Visio. I was running Studio 5000 and other AB software on it but move that over to a 14″ Dell which is dedicated to all this process control. It’s a can be a bit inconvenient at times (like when I’m on the wrong keyboard) but it’s a lot easier to pick up the Dell and head to a control panel or MCC since it’s only connected to a single network. Also helps with security by keeping networks segregated. The Mac is more of the nerve center for all the other stuff I have to keep up with (IT, Security cams, phones, etc.)September 28, 2018 at 1:06 am #3360Sean TerrellModeratorKarma: 187Rank: Jedi
I am a windows user.. nothing wrong with that. While I do love MacOS and the newest version Mojave is just slick as… teflon.. dark mode is amazing. Windows is the workhorse of the business world. Of course high level language programming and web extensibility of applications is certainly blurring the lines more and more.
I was a Mac hater. I come from a Unix coding background and my first job as a civilian, after the military was scripting, testing, automating and maintaining a system that was all linux with some HP unix. I actually used Linux Mint debian edition for almost 18 months on a company dell laptop as my everyday environment.
I was and still am a huge proponent of FOSS, and community development. However…… here it comes….
Macintosh Apple has created a culture of refined user experience. UE is baked into everything they make. Yes its more expensive. But it works. Better, smoother, faster, and with less issues than you think. I would have sworn to you 2 years ago that I didnt really have issues with my laptop and that everything worked pretty well. Until I worked next to a guy with a Mac. Then I started realizing how many little issues I would have all day long, and I was just used to dealing with.
I dont have a Mac because im not a windows person. I have a Mac because I AM a windows person. Their hardware just runs it better than anyone else.
– ScooterSeptember 28, 2018 at 1:10 am #3361Sean TerrellModeratorKarma: 187Rank: Jedi
what is it like for you when you go to use the touch pad on that dell in the field?
I know that it kills me every time I have to do it.
– ScooterSeptember 28, 2018 at 8:14 am #3364Jim ManleyModeratorKarma: 262Rank: Jedi
It sounds like our careers ran parallel. I also spent my early years pounding out UNIX scripts and managing UNIX environments.
I have had to justify Macs in my old work environment and the one thing that alway surprised management was the fact that Mac hardware lasted twice as long as PC hardware and had a lower lifecycle cost than the PCs and higher user satisfaction rate than PCs. This took the sting out of the cost of the Mac hardware.
JimSeptember 28, 2018 at 8:16 am #3365Jim ManleyModeratorKarma: 262Rank: Jedi
I HATE touch pads. In fact, I usually disable them. I have a really nice, small wireless mouse that goes with me everywhere I take the dell. Yeah, I have to give up a USB port but, for me, it’s worth it.
JimSeptember 28, 2018 at 10:41 pm #3367Sean TerrellModeratorKarma: 187Rank: Jedi
I hated touch pads I kept them disabled as well. In the past year i have found myself more and more often standing at some piece of equipment holding my laptop and connecting to some instrument or standing at a bluetooth valve refreshing my bluetooth over and over until it connects. The touchpad has become important to me. And nobody makes fingering a clicky surface more inviting than mac.
I honestly think that is what sold me. The machines performance is great, it runs windows amazingly well. Boot Camp Virtual Machine, but the liquid smooth response to the multi touch gestures !! I spend all day jumping in and out of VM’s it is SO nice to just swipe to the next thingOctober 1, 2018 at 12:59 pm #3372Jim ManleyModeratorKarma: 262Rank: Jedi
I should have qualified my answer. I’m not a fan of the touchpad on any Windows machine I have. My Mac, on the other hand, is a different story. I use a combination of mouse and touch pad on the Mac. Some of the CAD things I do really need a mouse for close in details.October 1, 2018 at 3:42 pm #3373PLCGuruKeymaster
Maybe I need to add a Mac forum for you guys…;) Great stuff guys!November 14, 2018 at 9:40 am #3561Wayne SchaeferParticipantKarma: 122Rank: Jedi
Maybe I should be getting a MAC and taking it for a test-drive. I suspect there will be Pros and Cons for every Software or Hardware platform. I think the key takeaway is to choose the best tool for the current job based on a set criteria. Carrying around a laptop everywhere is no picnic at the best of times, but in a dirty environment a touch pad just wouldn’t work well. However, I can see where a small and portable programming and interface tool would be advantageous.
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